uHu
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2014 6:42 pm

Degraded image quality even uncompressed?

Tue Sep 16, 2014 7:04 pm

Hi

I am just demoing Bandicam 2.0.3.674.

I compared the different video-formats to see, which one would offer the best quality.
But it seems, that I get some artefacts even with RGB24 and YV12, which I thought would be uncompressed formats.


To show, what I mean, here some pictures:
The differences are most obvious on the frame around the CPU diagramm.
(And with RGB24 also the white is totally off.)

Print function of Windows (actually artefact-free):
Image

RGB24:
Image

YV12:
Image



Now those YV12 and RGB24 pictures are made with MPC-BE.
So maybe it's not displaying the videos right.
That said, I made a test with another video recording tool, which gave me an artefact free picture in MPC-BE (sadly I am not sure, which uncompressed format it uses).
Also I seem to get the same artefacts around the frame of the CPU diagramm with every other format in Bandicam as well.

I am now asking myself, if there's a problem with Bandicam, or if my player does not show the videos as they are.
So does anybody know something about this?
Are you able to capture completely transparent / artefact-free videos with Bandicam?

uHu
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2014 6:42 pm

Re: Degraded image quality even uncompressed?

Tue Sep 16, 2014 8:15 pm

Just tested the Lagarith Lossless encoder in the other recording tool, and got the same kind of artefacts.

To check out, if it's a player-based issue I also tried newer versions of MPC-BE, with and without FFDShow, and also MPC-HC.
It looks the same in every player. :/

So is there something wrong with my general setup?
I am using Windows 8.1 Pro 64bit.

Dfactor
Posts: 215
Joined: Wed Sep 18, 2013 7:14 am

Re: Degraded image quality even uncompressed?

Tue Sep 16, 2014 10:03 pm

I assume that BC uses few optimization algorithms, hence the output is a little bit different.
I opened all 3 pictures, zoomed in and compared side by side. For me, there are minor unnoticeable differences, like little bit faded blacks and some extra colors due to ClearType.
I doubt that the staff will be able to help you as, honestly speaking, there aren't any noticeable differences to the naked eye.

uHu
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2014 6:42 pm

Re: Degraded image quality even uncompressed?

Tue Sep 16, 2014 10:20 pm

To me the differences are obvious.
And for some parts (the frame) it looks like the captured picture is a bit less sharp.
Sure, it's not like "terrible", but I'd really like to start off as clean as possible.

Also I am not sure, if it really is an issue of Bandicam, since I could reproduce the problem in another program (depending on the format).
I also tried it with disabled "Use enhanced capture method (faster, Windows 8 or above)" now. But the image is the same.


Could maybe some people confirm, that they have the same issue, or tell me if not?
Maybe there's something wrong with my Windows-config or whatever.


I am evaluating several programs at the moment, and want to make sure, that everything works fine, before I buy one (or stay with a free solution).

uHu
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2014 6:42 pm

Re: Degraded image quality even uncompressed?

Tue Sep 16, 2014 10:58 pm

I made some more tests.
There seem to be two effects:

Color shifting.
Some tones get darker, some get lighter.

Blurring.
Examples here:
ImageImage

uHu
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2014 6:42 pm

Re: Degraded image quality even uncompressed?

Wed Sep 17, 2014 12:32 am

Arrghhh ... this is making me crazy. >.<

The Bandicam Screenshot function also produces good pics, but the recording (with YV12 ... and any other codec) is still blurry and the colors are off.

Here a another comparison:
ImageImage

Nyvoren
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue Oct 01, 2013 4:17 pm

Re: Degraded image quality even uncompressed?

Wed Sep 17, 2014 4:20 am

The color shift is because Bandisoft doesn't think anyone needs full RGB capture ( or yuv 4:4:4 ) at this time and it downsamples ALL captured video to 4:2:0. Yes, it probably means that bandicam's RGB mode results in the same quality as YV12. If you're not sure what any of that means, google "chroma subsampling" and "yv12".

As for the sharpness, that can be fixed by adjusting some settings in the video player. If you want to eliminate blur causes by the video renderer try either MadVR with MPC or for VLC change the video output to OpenGL. Example below :

Image

uHu
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2014 6:42 pm

Re: Degraded image quality even uncompressed?

Wed Sep 17, 2014 9:36 am

The color shift is because Bandisoft doesn't think anyone needs full RGB capture ( or yuv 4:4:4 ) at this time and it downsamples ALL captured video to 4:2:0. Yes, it probably means that bandicam's RGB mode results in the same quality as YV12. If you're not sure what any of that means, google "chroma subsampling" and "yv12".
Thank you very much for this information!

I just did a test, and this color space thing seems to be indeed the issue. It's also responsible for the blurring!
(MadVR made no difference in that regard, since there was no rescaling happening.)

This time I compared the uncompressed option of FFDShow.
In Bandicam using RGB24 gives a black picture, in another program I got a perfectly clear and artefact free image.
Then I switched to YV12, and now Bandicam has the usual blurred image quality. Doing the same in the other program give exactly the same blurred results.

Recording in YV12 seems to be a big no-no.
So I really can't understand, why Bandicam does not support RGB24. :(
It's really a shame, because apart from that issue it's the recorder-software I liked the most out of the many I tried.


Do you know, if it's planned to make future versions compatible?
And thanks again for your help!

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Bandicam Company
Site Admin
Posts: 7802
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 2010 12:19 pm

Re: Degraded image quality even uncompressed?

Wed Sep 17, 2014 10:39 am

Hello uHu!

If you use the registered Bandicam and use the internal RGB24 codec, you may not have the problem.

If you use the unregistered Bandicam, we have to add the watermark (http://www.bandicam.com), so the problem can happen.

Even though, if you use the registered Bandicam, you may still have the problem with the YV12, or Lagarith codec.

uHu
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2014 6:42 pm

Re: Degraded image quality even uncompressed?

Wed Sep 17, 2014 12:08 pm

So the issue with RGB24 in Bandicam is actually related to the watermarking?

I mean, I already tried the RGB24 codec in Bandicam, but it gave me worse results than YV12 (as you can see in the screenshot in the opening post).

So can you confirm, that this is not the case with the registered version?

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